Curse

bleh · Jun 23, 2006, 07:37 AM // 07:37

I got a bit sick of doin warrior primary knockdown and r/w bunny thumper so i tought who else would be good.

Assasin / Warroir

weapon:
Hammer

Skills i used

Irresistible Blow
Forceful Blow {E}
Heavy Blow
Crushing Blow
Shadow Refuge----------v
Shroud of Distress------->>>>>need replacing for better T A use
For Great Justice
Res Signet

Attributes:
12 Critical Strikes (+1+1)
12 Hammer Mastery
8 Shadow Arts

What I went for was nice spikes of damage with critical strikes
The reason i din't make good use of my critical strikes attribute is because i don't have many unlocked >_< but i can see some very usefull looking skills
e.g. Critical Defenses and sharpen daggers

Here are reasons to go Assasin primary:

One more energy pip
better armour than other classes(other than w/r)
Far better chance to get a critical hit

Cons:
no pet
limited Attack speed increasing skills

I found this set up put out alot of damage and with the assasin primary could be made better use of im sure.

Has any one else tried assasin as a substitute to bunny thumper?

any critical analisis would be good i think it is a decent alternative to bunny thumper and maybe removing the self heals and adding cripples it could surpass bunny thump but im not too sure i havn't tried.

suiraCLAW · Jun 23, 2006, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Quote:

i think it is a decent alternative to bunny thumper

Sorry, but that isn't true at all:
-a thumper has Tigers fury = IAS, something everybody needs
-a thumper has a pet, wich doubles the DPS of the thumper
-a thumper has pet skills, wich can help spiking
-a thumper can KD a lot more
-the thumper has a better primary attribute (if you want to carry a hammer)
-why do you want to use a sin anyway?

Anyway: good thinking, but this build isn't viable at all.

bleh · Jun 23, 2006, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by suiraCLAW

Sorry, but that isn't true at all:
-a thumper has Tigers fury = IAS, something everybody needs
-a thumper has a pet, wich doubles the DPS of the thumper
-a thumper has pet skills, wich can help spiking
-a thumper can KD a lot more
-the thumper has a better primary attribute (if you want to carry a hammer)
-why do you want to use a sin anyway?

Anyway: good thinking, but this build isn't viable at all.

In its current condition no it isn't better but with maybe caltrops ( cripples foe and adjacents ) and some other additions it could be.
I was just throwing it out here so other people would play with assasin primary kd.

the reason it does alot of damage is because you have increased crit chance with crit strikes AND hammer mastery attribute.

JR · Jun 23, 2006, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleh

the reason it does alot of damage is because you have increased crit chance with crit strikes AND hammer mastery attribute.

Yes, but you also only have 12 Hammer Mastery. If it is straight up damage you are looking for use a Warrior.

bleh · Jun 23, 2006, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Yes, but you also only have 12 Hammer Mastery. If it is straight up damage you are looking for use a Warrior.

I find that I like the crit strike, deadly arts and shadow arts skills more and they are easier to use as assasin primary with good energy management.

suiraCLAW · Jun 23, 2006, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Quote:

In its current condition no it isn't better but with maybe caltrops ( cripples foe and adjacents ) and some other additions it could be.

The point is that a thumpers pet also brings utility, and thumpers don't really need a lot of snares: a unconditional KD does the job.

Quote:

the reason it does alot of damage is because you have increased crit chance with crit strikes AND hammer mastery attribute.

Those 14% more chance of a crit doesn't outdamage the pet...

Quote:

assasin primary with good energy management.

Sorry but here are the numbers:

-ranger with expertise at 14 -> you can use a 10 E SKILL every 4 secs -> would be the same as somebody with 8 pips of energy.

-Sin with critical strike at 14 and 15 dagger mastery -> 36% of chance -> with 3 energy at each crit that's a extra ~3 pips (IF autoattacking against a non-moving dude) -> total of 7 pips

Even in the perfect situation that a sin can create expertise still outnumbers it + keep in mind that expertise always works.

Like I said: it's a good idea, but it doesn't really work.

BTW: maiming strike > caltrops, what other skills did you have in mind? (just curious, don't see this as flaming...)

edit: forgot that this dude has a hammer with only 12 attributes without IAS, in other words: the energy gain in a perfect situation is even worse.

fb2000 · Jun 23, 2006, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleh

I find that I like the crit strike, deadly arts and shadow arts skills more and they are easier to use as assasin primary with good energy management.

i'd recommend you go in the W/A direction. my observation shows that when you are going in for ur spike, more often than not, youll get the target facing you with its back, sooo, there go the auto-criticals (unless im mistaken sadly each time u hit an enemy in the back u score critical?)

imo the thumpers are not so much ran for pure dmg, they cant step on the warriors lil toe in that area if you ask me. they do add a shit load of interrupts and extra pressure, which is why they are used so much with the dual smiting these days..

swordfisher · Jun 23, 2006, 10:24 PM // 22:24

If a foe is standing still and you hit them in the back, regular chance of a crit. If a foe is moving and you hit them in the back, autocrit.

fb2000 · Jun 23, 2006, 10:31 PM // 22:31

i just tried it before i read your post

still, a good deal of players do that

Celab · Jul 08, 2006, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by suiraCLAW

-Sin with critical strike at 14 and 15 dagger mastery -> 36% of chance -> with 3 energy at each crit that's a extra ~3 pips (IF autoattacking against a non-moving dude) -> total of 7 pips

You forget about zealous tangs/hilts

suiraCLAW · Jul 09, 2006, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celab

You forget about zealous tangs/hilts

That post wasn't correct anyway because I forgot that this dude doesn't use daggers or speed boosts.

"Correct" numbers (with a hammer):
3 Energy at each critical hit, with 17,4+12 = 29,4 chance of crit hit -> if autoattacking for 35 seconds he would hit 20 times, ~6 hits will crit -> gain of ~18 energy over 35 seconds -> ~1,5 extra pip (if autattacking against non-kiting creature) -> total of ~5,5 pips

Zealous isn't calculated because a thumper can take it too (+ a thumper has TF, wich increases the energy gain from zealous).

Celab · Jul 12, 2006, 05:50 PM // 17:50

a thumper has expertise so theres no real use for it.

where did you get 17.4 + 12 btw?

Aug · Jul 12, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57

According to guildwarswiki.com, the formula for crit chance is WPN_SKILL*.0144+.0027. At 12 weapon skill, you get 17.6% chance to crit.

It doesn't really make sense, IMO, to go A/W with a Hammer. As shown, the energy management from Crit Strikes using a 1.75 speed weapon that can't double strike isn't all that spectacular. Also, 16 Hammer alone will yield greater DPS than 12 Hammer and 16 Crit Strikes.

Critical Strikes is only good when you're using Daggers. Otherwise it's a pretty awful attribute.

Van Goghs Ear · Jul 12, 2006, 07:43 PM // 19:43

benefits of warrior hammer:

-ability to drop 16 in hammer
-high dps
-high armor allows for overextending from monk and the opportunity to 'safely' frenzy
-can build adren fast

benefits of thumper:

-high pressure, good dps due to pet
-constant kd due to tf and fs (can spam irr blow)
-lower armor but does not need to use frenzy for adren and energy
-if blinder is pressuring thumper, rangers have high elemental armor

benefits of assassin with hammer:

none, it is a horrible idea.

zepath · Jul 15, 2006, 11:03 AM // 11:03

//

Quote:

Originally Posted by fb2000

i'd recommend you go in the W/A direction. my observation shows that when you are going in for ur spike, more often than not, youll get the target facing you with its back, sooo, there go the auto-criticals (unless im mistaken sadly each time u hit an enemy in the back u score critical?)

//

The bit about auto-criticals from behind is a rumor. My guildies and I have tested this in melee and at ranged, moving and non-moving, from higher ground and from lower ground and there is no difference.

zepath · Jul 15, 2006, 11:06 AM // 11:06

If I were to run an A/W hammer build, I'd do the following combo:

Devastating Hammer
Mighty Blow
Heavy Blow
Crushing Blow
Iron Palm
Belly Smash
Entangling Asp

If you were looking for an advantage of going A/W, there you have it. 4 KD combo with poison, deep wound, weakness, and AoE blindness. Not physically possible with any other class combo without usage of exhaustion skills (which is a bad idea for a warrior anyway)

The main disadvantage of this is that you don't have KD gauntlets, so you might want to replace mighty blow with some speed enhancer to squeeze the KD's together